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today and so my question is how do you

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avoid bilking and the answer comes from

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information entropy entropy has two

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forms the classical form is

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thermodynamics and at a previous SS a

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meeting I talked about this

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thermodynamic entropy and discussed how

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it can be used with regard to Sian

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formation there's another form of

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entropy and that is information entropy

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and that is the entropy that I'm going

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to be using today and it has been shown

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pretty much conclusively that

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information entropy is in fact identical

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to thermodynamic entropy so again this

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is a measure of disorder this

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information entropy can be expressed

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quantitatively and you can express it in

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terms of how surprised you are to learn

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that an intended outcome has occurred

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and that's called surprise elitsa

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technical term so if you know little it

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really is I didn't make it up if you

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know little about the outcome and it

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occurs then you will be very surprised

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if you know a lot you'll be less

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surprised and so this surprise ille is a

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measure of uncertainty and it's

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quantified in terms of entropy and so if

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you know little beforehand the

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information entropy is large and it

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turns out that in this case the

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possibility of retro psychokinesis is

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large this has been described and can be

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described quantitatively using entropy

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and surprise ille in information entropy

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an information theory involving

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Shannon's famous formula I'm not going

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to go into that right now so what are

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the implications of this approach in

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which we say that in fact you can have

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retro causation it does not contradict

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physics under certain conditions well we

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can say that retro causation is

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compatible and I haven't gone into that

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here with Newton's laws and

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of energy and I can say that the real

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question is one of the second law of

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thermodynamics and entropy is a vector

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causation compatible with that and I

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think that really is the question and

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that's how it ought to be posed why the

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second law of thermodynamics because the

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second law of thermodynamics is really

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just a description of logic it describes

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logically how a multi-part system by a

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probability must evolve over time so

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what I've done is I've linked logic from

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the second law of thermodynamics and the

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bilking paradox to produce what are the

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conditions for retro causation and we

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find that it's not not an all-or-nothing

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process but in fact it's a it's a part

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as a somewhat process and the greater

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our knowledge of a previous outcome the

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smaller the information entropy is and

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the smaller the interim information

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entropy is the less of an effect we can

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have on the past the lower our

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psychokinesis efficiency if we can

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define such a quantity so the bilking

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paradox disappears if psychokinesis is

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limited by uncertainty and that

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uncertainty is measured by information

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entropy and looking at it a little bit

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more in terms of quantities that we deal

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with every day in life it's limited by

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noise because the more noise that a

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system has the greater the entropy the

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information entropy is and the greater

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the psychokinesis can be and it this is

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consistent with other musings and

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studies which have linked sigh phenomena

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to noise in a system if you have a

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perfectly defined system with no

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randomness associated with noise then we

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cannot have a sigh phenomena

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I was afraid of a question from York and

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here it comes some speculations by the

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late philosopher Robert Nozick about the

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the way truth values are related to time

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suggest an alternative scenario in which

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it is possible to win yesterday's

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lottery even after you already know the

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wrong ticket that if a retro PK can

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actually operate it would be in

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principle possible using Nozick's model

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that you make your PK effort you change

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this event in the past and then all

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causal carlitz change ah in which case

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you would find yourself completely

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forgetting everything that had happened

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before and you would simply have been

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holding the winning lottery ticket the

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whole time and there would be no point

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in this case of using the retro PK this

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is not a that this is not an internal

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contradiction because the of the way

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Nozick's truth values are handled and

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I'm wondering if you'd like to comment

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on this approach ok so that is one of a

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class of several philosophical

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descriptions of ways that you can

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uncaused something in the past to happen

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retro actively and I find them to be

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highly artificial and I see no

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experimental evidence for them it

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doesn't seem to relate in any way to

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what I understand is house I phenomena

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occur and although I think they're nice

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mind candy I don't think that they help

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us in understanding what's happening

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here so Garrett as a as a practical

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matter in doing this when you start

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thinking about picking the six numbers

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of the lottery out of the pool of 40 or

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so numbers doesn't I aren't those

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completely independent events and the

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knowledge of one really shouldn't have

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any effect on the on the others it just

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basically reduces the probability

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the of picking a one in 40 versus the

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next numbers of one and 39 so I'm not

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sure it's if you think about it as each

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each prediction or each information

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exchange is it is a independent event

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unless you're saying that you're at well

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those leave it there Darryl I think your

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point is well taken and particularly

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after my response to York and saying

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that York's examples were unrealistic

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you're pointing out that my example 2 is

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unrealistic and I agree with you

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actually the lottery example I put it up

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there because the numbers give us a good

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mechanism to kind of think how much of

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something do we know but I agree with

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you that there are problems with the

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lottery example and if we want to talk

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about a real example it would have to be

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some sort of a fuzziness of

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understanding an image or something like

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that where we've gotten certain parts of

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it so your point is well taken hey

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Garrett um I'm kind of going to ask a

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similar question to everybody else but

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then as everyone else but isn't there a

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can you always kind of have a broader

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system around the system that you're in

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where for example it turns out that your

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lottery information was a mistake or you

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misheard it or just kind of on and on

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and aren't those sort of things wouldn't

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they be governed by the same sorts of

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rules in a way so this mistake I I

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actually need a response from John this

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mistake is it part of the noise of a

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larger system or is it separate from the

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noise of a larger system you can always

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have a larger system effectively I mean

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at the end of the day you could keep

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working through these systems and then

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you could come upon an observation and

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say oh my god and then just wake up

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effectively so you know that's a silly

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philosophical way of looking at it but I

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don't know that we can talk about a

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system that's totally isolated including

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I agree with you and this is really a

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flaw of the law the second law of

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thermodynamics which says that you're

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dealing with a closed system and the

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entropy within that closed system act in

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a certain way and you're saying that

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really no system is closed and I agree